Transcript of meeting in BioMOO, PPS Base 29th May '96 15:00 GMT: RasMol

We would like to thank RasMol author and PPS Consultant Roger Sayle for attending this session.

This transcript can currently be found on the tape 'rasmol_tape' in the PPS Base. When in this room, type @mailme bioinfo_tape to e-mail it to yourself


jzt turns the C-recorder on.

Jzt says, "testing rasmol tape 29th May 1996"

jzt turns the C-recorder off.

jzt turns the C-recorder on.

ClareS [to RogerSayle]: receiving you fine now, welcome!

JohnW applauds too

RogerSayle [guest] says, "The connection seems much better from Edinburgh"

Simo finds his/her way in.

Jzt [to RogerSayle]: Glad you got here!

Simo finds his/her way out.

JohnW [to RogerSayle]: no problem...thanks for bearing with us despite the tech hitches

JohnW says, "Ok, shall we begin?"

SteveTate says, "yes please"

Ahotz nods

Silke nods

RogerSayle [guest] nodes

PeteO nods

Paolo nods

RogerS [guest] has disconnected.

The housekeeper arrives to remove RogerS [guest].

ClareS . o O ( 20 ppl here - almost a record? )

Qian [guest] finds its way in.

JohnW says, "This meeting is intended to be at a relatively introductory level...then depending on the feedback we will hopefully be holding one some more advanced RasMol seminars later."

TRex says, "and more yet"

RogerSayle [guest] says, "Don't worry RogerSayle is still here"

JohnW smiles

Simo finds his/her way in.

HorstJS finds his way in.

JohnW says, "We have an agenda (.../PPS2/listproc/pps96-general/9605/0057.html) but of course we can deviate from this (as usual ;) depending on what questions people might have"

Johnr asks "Did somebody invite Eric Martz- he'd enjoy this historic event!

Qian [guest] says, ""Hellow, everyone!""

ClareS welcomes newcomers

TRex Hello Qian

JohnW says, "We hope to have some of the RasMol e-mail listers at future seminars"

ClareS [to JohnW]: what is the address of the Rasmol list? I didn't know of it

JohnW says, "Ok, firstly, I am assuming that all present here have at least some basic knowledge of using RasMol, by using the pull-down menus for instance"

ClareS nods

Ahotz nods

Lappe nods

Paolo nods

PeteO nods

EricG nods

Giovanni says, "yes"

Silke nods

JohnW [to ClareS]: see the impressive Rasmol Home Page at

JohnW says, "..that home page and the RasMol e-mail list are run by Eric Martz"

Qian [guest] says, ""yes""

Paulyta finds his/her way in.

Paulyta waves

Gayle schulte finds his/her way in.

JohnW says, "I believe that some of the PPS-ers are already on the RasMol e-mail list- I certainly recommend it, very educational!"

Gayle schulte waves

TRex waves to new arrivals

RogerSayle [guest] says, "to ClareS To join the RasMol list send the message "subscribe rasmol <bname> " to"

JohnW says, "Anyway, back to using RasMol... how many people have experimented with using more complicated combinations of commands to display molecules in more elaborate ways?"

Iddo raises hand

Johnr grins

JohnW says, "(BTW see the RasMol page under PPS Technology Page for pointer to RasMol home page, Henry Brzeskis and Alan Wards tutorials, plus other goodies..)"

ClareS [to RogerSayle]: <bname>? real name or email address?

Lappe wa[139q: murmers"yes, tried.."

RogerSayle [guest] [to ClareS]: sorry, Real Name

TRex says, "I wouldn't say I've done complicated things with RasMol!"

Silke has just used a combination of simple commands

JohnW says, "Ok.. so I take it there are some here who may not have tried typing in actual commands, rather than using the pull down menus?"

TRex nods

Ahotz says, "I took commands out of the scripts supplied"

Qian [guest] says, ""I have tried""

Lappe It took me a fair amount of time to display hydrogen bonds ...

TRex says, "I have typed a few commands using Roger's manual as a guide"

Paolo says, "Me too"

ClareS has not done anything very complex

CrisCan says, "me too"

Paulyta has disconnected.

Johnr is tickled by "within(distance, id)"

HorstJS experimented with a few commands but only a few

TRex grins

JohnW says, "Well, before I proceed, it will be as well to check that people have their WWW browsers configured to invoke RasMol including the command line window, not just the display window"

Iddo goes home.

Paulyta has connected.

JohnW says, "(actually this applies to Unix boxes eally, as I think on other systems the command window always comes up)"

TRex says, "I have both windows come up"

AlexS finds his way in.

TRex agrees with John - the command box comes up automatically on PCs

Lappe says (sorry, I can't access RasMol from this machine, so I'll just follow the session textually)

JohnW says, "Ok, well please speak up now anyone who is not aware of the non-display window...which is the one which displays various data on request, and when you first load in a structure file"

Kurt raises his hand

Kurt says, " I only get the 'picture' window"

JohnW says, "..and the one you type commands into. I should say at this stage that what follows is geared towards looking at PDB structure files with RasMol, but of course that is not the only structure format Rasmol can interpret"

SteveTate says, "is that the command line?"

Silke is not sitting at her usual computer and just trying to install rasmol

CheeMV finds his way in.

JohnW [to kurt]: Are you using a Unix box?

Kurt nods

JohnW is digging out his .mailcap file

ClareS has updated to netscape2 recently, and it's no longer finding the .mailcap

JohnW says, "Ok- if you start RasMol in unix from a terminal window, then it is that window which displays the info + accepts commands. Netscape should therefore be configured to start up one of these windows, which sunsequently runs Rasmol (rather than running rasmol directly), as follows:"

JohnW says, "e.g. of the form:"

JohnW says, "chemical/x-pdb; xterm -e <path>/rasmol %s;"

JohnW says, " your .mailcap file"

JohnW [to kurt]: "Is this different to what is currently defined in your .mailcap file for the chemical/x-pdb MIME type?

Kurt nods and corrects his .mailcap

TRex muses about the idiosyncracies of unix

SteveTate says, "I love unix!"

JohnW adds that some WWW servers use the chemical/pdb (sic) MIME type, e.g. the one at ExPASy in Geneva, so you should have this defined in your .mailcap too

Johnr notes that it is true multitasking idiosyncracity

TRex says, "I wish I could talk to it!"

Kurt now has a perfectly working set up!

JohnW says, "Yes, sorry to bore you Mac and Windows buffs.. ;-)"

TRex claps enthusiastically

TRex says, "No problem - I can use the information!"

TRex says, "Anyway, back to RasMol"

TRex says, "Can I ask about RaMenu - or is that jumping ahead?"

JohnW says, "actually, I think this is probably as good a point as any to talk about RasMenu..but not using PCs much, I am not that experienced with it- could somebody else take up this one?"

RogerSayle [guest] [to TRex]: "What would you like to know about RasMenu?"

Johnr says, "To complicate things, I don't *think* RasMENU works on a Win95 box-- just 3.11"

JohnW [to RogerSayle]: Is it possible to sum up in a nutshell the difference between RasMenu and RasWin?

TRex says, "I guess I would like to know what advantages it has above using the command line window"

JohnW [to johnr]: We've got RasMenu working with WIn 95

ClareS [to RogerSayle]: is that right (about Win95)? I am thinking of buying a PC, and RasMol is one of the progs I will need

Bergeron has disconnected.

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""RasMenu is simply a graphical front end to RasWin under Microsoft Windows""

JohnW nods

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""RasMenu doesn't perform graphics operations itself but rather starts"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""up a copy of RasWin and passes commands to it dynamically"

TRex says, "I have to admit that I don't have RasMenu working on this terminal - it needs a file called vbrun..., which I don't have here"

SteveTate says, "is rasmenu only available on th epc and what advantages does it have ? being a Mac user I would also like thes advanatages if any."

ClareS says, "I would like to know if there is anything I will need to look for / avoid when selecting a PC? And will it run under Linux?"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Everything that you can do in the RasMenu GUI corresponds to a command line in RasWin"

CrisCan says, "why there is no more in 2.6?"

Qian [guest] says, ""I could not start rasmenu by itself. I had to start raswin first before starting rasmenu. Is that right?""

Johnr says, "Yes-- perhaps there is something to setting up the directory trees in Win95?!"

ClareS has figured out the changes in her .mailcap

TRex says, "So, Roger - is it necessary to have RasMenu, if it passes everything "through" the command line box??"

Johnr asks RogerS what about "spinning?"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""The only advantage of RasMenu, for Mac Users, is that it can be used to help construct complex command lines"

JohnW says, "Ah yes, 'spin'"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""You could probably build a version of RasMenu for the apple SQMac using AppleScript"

TRex says, "?complex command lines - like "scripts" ?"

AlexS has disconnected.

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Of cousre the rocjk and spin commands are exceptions to the rule!""

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""these RasMenu menu options repeatedly send "rotate y " commands"

SteveTate says, "for the last 45 mins we have talked about mine good? then ????? what about how to use the basics how to select things etc how to use the command line etc. or are you assuming that we can all do this ?"

PeteO I'm still having trouble inputting script files with RasMenu (using W3.11): the program freezes! Anyone else have this problem?

JohnW nods

TRex frowns quietly

RogerSayle [guest] [to ]:

Johnr says, "And I wish RasMol weren't so smart about its scripts!"

Johnr says, "Dumb scripts a la Gnuplot would be nice."

JohnW [to SteveTate]: yes, we have got sidetracked a bit... we will go back to addressing the subject of basic rasmol commands:

RogerSayle [guest] [to johnr]: "

SteveTate says, "thanks"

RogerSayle [guest] [to johnr]: In what sense do you prefer GNUplot scripts?

PeteO apologizes

Johnr says, "Oh! I can apply them to various files!"

SteveTate dozes quitely in the corner

Johnr says, "Rather than they're being "hard-wired" :-)"

The housekeeper arrives to cart Bergeron off to bed.

SteveTate has just woken Kdenton up from a deep slumber

JohnW says, "Ok, back to basic commands..."

Johnr says, "But-- what a program! A delight to tell the world (and students) about"

RogerSayle [guest] [to johnr]: "The only problem is with RasMol generated scripts that refer to a particular molecule

Ahotz has disconnected.

RogerSayle [guest] [to johnr]: "Scripts written by hand , as GNUplot scripts must be, apply to anything

Giovanni has disconnected.

TRex says, "Let's go through a few basic commands that people have problems with. Anyone?"

ClareS [to TRex]: very sensible idea...

SteveTate says, " is there any method of defining your own sets ? "

TRex grins sheepishly

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""You can define your own sets in RasMol with the "define" command"

The housekeeper arrives to cart AlexS off to bed.

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""i.e. define activesite within(8.0,ligand)"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""then you can use this in expressions such as "select activesite and hydrophobic""

JohnW should get into the habit of defining his own sets...

JohnW says, "could we clarify the difference between the 'select' and 'restrict' commands?"

EricG [to RogerSayle]: "Why don't we go for defining a small molecule and render it, as a first tutorial, if this is not too elementary?"

JohnW says, "or perhaps we could all look at a particular PDB file..."

EricG agrees.

RogerSayle [guest] scnas the internet for a good PDB file

ClareS agrees with johnw

JohnW says, "make it a small one!"

JohnW smiles

TRex smiles

SteveTate says, "what is the default for for commands such as ribbon? is the default 100 or another number?"

ClareS would like to recommend the EBI mirror site for speed ;-)

JohnW says, "BTW everyone should download the file from their nearest Internet site (assuming its not on your own local system of course!"

TRex says, "What about 1crn.pdb, which comes with the program?"

The housekeeper arrives to cart ahotz off to bed.

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Excellent idea, 1crn.pdb it is!"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""By default, the ribbon command display 380 wide in helix and sheet and 100 wide in coil"

The housekeeper arrives to cart Giovanni off to bed.

JohnW says, "No solvent to look at, which is probably no bad thing for an introductory tutorial"

Qian [guest] has disconnected.

The housekeeper arrives to remove qian [guest].

SteveTate says, " I've just hade a floating point error on Rasmol (windows 3.1) things are not going well here "


I'm sorry to disturb this intensive discussion,

but I have another lecture at the BCD-classroom, so

I've got to leave here.

The questions I'd like to put are the following (may be

discussed later):

1. Where can I find a transcript of this session afterwards ?

2. (secondary structures)

How does RasMol calculate the flat ribbon bonds representing

helices ? how does it determine the direction of the ribbon,

in which direction the flat side has to face ?

3. In the manual pages I found that RasMol "calculates"

secondary structure elements, if not given in the PDB-file.

Is that right ?

4. Is there a possibility of using an abstract representation

of barrels for alpha-helices and flat ribbons for sheets ?


TRex says, "I have a wirframe crambin!"

ClareS does too

RogerSayle [guest] does too

TRex says, "Steve, which version of RasMol are you using?"

JohnW [to Lappe]: this is being recorded, but will also be archived on WWW, unless anyone objects....will e-mail you the URL later

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Has evryone managed to to load crambin?""

Qian [guest] finds its way in.

Kurt nods

EricG nods

TRex is not sure SteveTate has it under way

Lappe messag: [to JahnW] thanx! CU & Sayonara!

Lappe has disconnected.

Paolo nods

JohnW has got a crambin in front of him

Qian [guest] says, ""I was sent away by the system.""

TRex says, "Welcome back, Qian"

Qian [guest] says, ""thanks, Terry.""

TRex says, "Let's put some meat on crambin"

Simo nods

EricG [to JohnW]: "I would like to know if it is possible to edit the molecule once we see it on display

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""to draw the topic to the recent, questions, render Crambin using the "ribbons " command"

Lappe has connected.

Lappe finds his way out.

PeteO finally finds crambin

JohnW [to EricG]: I dont think this is possible

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Alas RasMol can only display molecules""

EricG [to JohnW]: "...but not just changing the appearance. By editing I mean add atoms, construct a molecule interactively without already having a description file.

SteveTate has disconnected.

JohnW says, "for beginners we should add that by default, all atoms are selected, so when you type 'ribbon' or 'wireframe' etc, this is applied to the whole molecule..."

MLappe [guest] finds its way in.

JohnW says, "..but you can apply these commands to particular parts, using the 'select' command first"

TRex says, "Can we go through select and restrict?"

JohnW [to TRex]: yes, my thoughts exactly

TRex smiles

Qian [guest] says, ""I agree with Terry.""

JohnW [to RogerSayle]: "could you explain the difference?

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""The difference is that the restrict command is supposed to turn off evrything that is not selected"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""the theory is that you restrict the molecule to the portion of interest"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""for example, "restrict sheets or helix" should turn off the display of the coil parts of crambin"

ClareS [to RogerSayle]: "turned off" = undisplayed, is this right?

ClareS . o O ( too late... )

TRex grins

JohnW [to RogerSayle]: "thats what I thought, but when I try 'restrict helix' for e.g. then only the wireframe rendition of the non-helix parts are turned off (previously I had the whole of crambin shown as both wireframe and ribbon

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Exactly, turned off means undisplayed""

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""this is easier than spacefill off, backbone off, wireframe off, ribbons off, etc..."

JohnW says, "..i.e. the sheets remain displayed as ribbon, but not wireframe"

HorstJS says, "could you explain the possible expressions for selecting atoms, a.acids, etc.??"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""to display the coil bits again, type "select all", "ribbons""

JohnW is a bit confused

Kurt says, "Is it possible to show the helices in ribbon and the rest as backbone without having to number the bits individually"

RogerSayle [guest] says, "The sel"

TRex says, "Restict on my PC turns off both wireframe and ribbons"

ClareS says, "I've noticed a difference in how "restrict" works depending on the previous display, when the whole molecule is drawn in ribbon, the ribbons stay after trstrict - when it's drawn in wireframe, the unselected bits disappear"

JohnW [to ClareS]: yes, thats exactly what I find

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Alas early versions of RasMol didn't always turn every represntation off, I forgot when adding ribbons with version 2.5, to turn them off in the restrict command. This is fixed in v2.6beta"

The housekeeper arrives to cart SteveTate off to bed.

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""I'm sorry for the confusion this has caused""

JohnW [to ClareS]: if you have the whole molecule simultaneously displayed as wireframe and ribbon, then restrict seems to turn off only the wireframe (on my unix box)

TRex says, "I'm using 2.6 :)"

ClareS is running 2.5...

JohnW is as well

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""In v2.5, type "select not selected" "ribbons off" "select not selected""

Qian [guest] says, ""I am using 2.6, too.""

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""this should then behave as RasMol was supposed to (mea culpa!""

Silke [to JohnW]: on my box restrict turns off both displays simultaneously

Kurt says, "How does it know what is helix? is this exactly as defined in the PDB file?"

JohnW says, "ok, I've got it now... its ok on 2.6 for unix"

JohnW nods to Kurt

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""if you type the copmmand "show info" you can find out which definitions for secondary structure RasMol is using""

RogerSayle [guest] [to say]: "if you type the command "structure" "show info" you can see that RasMol

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""has calculated where secondary structures are by geometry (Kabsch & Sander's DSSP algorithm), this definition is slightly different, you should notice that the ribbons start and end in different places""

Henryb says, "I'm still here. just keeping busy learning all these new things"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""For example, in crambin DSSP thinks that the tight turn between residues 40-45 is a helix!""

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""the authors called this a beta-turn""

TRex says, "Ahh!"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""if you type the commands "select all", "hbonds" you can see the hydrogen bonds that are used in the DSSP calculation"

JohnW says, "Another example is the insulin dimer, where the two beta strands which give rise to the dimer are not deemed as such by DSSP (I think)"

Qian [guest] says, ""I am still confused with the select and restrict commands. Can they do the same thing?""

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Try the following sequence of commands...""

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""select all; ribbons off; backbone 100; set hbonds backbone; hbonds 40; colour hbonds type"

EricG has disconnected.

ClareS says, "how are "types" of h-bonds defined?"

JohnW . o O ( Wow! )

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""This should display the hydrogen bonding pattern within Crambin. each hydrogen bond is displayed between alpha carbons colour coded by the distance between the donor and acceptor""

TRex stares open-mouthed

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""For example the +4 distance in alpha helices display red"

Kurt shares JohnW's amazement!

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""and the +5 hbonds in the turn display magenta""

ClareS says, "distance" refers to no. of amino acids, not distance in A?"

RogerSayle [guest] looks up hydrogen bonding criteria

PeteO says, "beautiful!"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""yes the number of residues between donor and acceptor residues along the chain"

Silke says, "is that how secondary structure is defined by dssp?"

Henryb says, "Rogers is it possible to visualise h bonds between two molecules in the same way?"

JohnW nods to silke

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""yes, DSSP defines structures based upon hydrogen bonding patterns"

Kurt says, "So why does DSSP call the C-terminus alpha helix?"

JohnW says, "Yes I was wondering that, Henry"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""i -> i+4, i+1 -> i+5 implies i+1 - 1+4 are alpha helix!"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""DSSP allows three types of helix +4: alpha helix, +3 3,10-helix and +5 pi-helix"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Infact the c-terminal is a short 3,10-helix"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Now try the following sequence of commands"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""select all; hbonds off; select cys; wireframe 40; select sulphur; spacefill"

The housekeeper arrives to cart EricG off to bed.

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Although, commonly hydrogen bonding is the main stabalising factor in protein structure, in the case of crambin its the disulphide bridges that also help!"

Kurt applauds

TRex says, "I must do more of this !"

ClareS applauds too

JohnW claps

PeteO . o O ( Very nice! )

Paolo claps

HorstJS 's jaw drops

Johnr claps exuberantly

Silke applauds as well

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""one of the questions that was asked earlier is how do you select amino acids, the previous example shows that all residues of a particular type can be selected by giving the three letter code"

TRex says, "And we haven't even gotten to making movies yet!"

ClareS says, "I really am going to have to go soon; thanks for a very useful seminar"

JohnW says, "I think making movies will have to wait for another day.. definitely an 'advanced topic'"

ClareS says, "one thing I am particularly interested in is how to make / show movies with rasmol "

JohnW waves to clares

TRex nods enthusiastically

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Ok there are several ways of making movies for RasMol"

Henryb says, "can I do this with 2.5?"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""One method involves generating indiviidual frames as GIF images and composing them together using public domain software into MPEG movies, the other makes use of the "refresh" commands in RasMol script files"

ClareS says, "would it be possible to address this topic at a later meeting? Would others be interested?"

JohnW [to RogerSayle]: "so that the 'movie-player' is rasmol itself?

Silke is definitely interested

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""Unfortunately, for best results you need RasMol v2.6""

TRex says, "i certainly would, but can Roger find the time?"

ClareS . o O ( I will need to find out about that PD software, too )

Kurt is also very interested

PeteO too!

Paolo too

RogerSayle [guest] [to JohnW]: "should we schedule a later meeting?"

CrisCan too

Johnr WILL be there!

Henryb says, "these extra requirements mean that I would prefer if this were done at a later dat"

TRex says, "Perhaps a later date, with a notice about the files and programs needed then?"

ClareS is looking at her diary!

Gayle schulte says, "I'd like another meeting on RasMol"

HorstJS says, "mee too"

TRex says, "If everyone can have 2.6, for example"

Qian [guest] says, ""good idea, Terry.""

JohnW says, "yes, considering the attendance today, another RasMol meeting is certainly on the cards.."

Henryb says, "I would like to say thanks to Roger for coming and telling us about all the goodies he built into rasmol... thanyou again"

TRex hear, hear For he's a jolly good fellow...

ClareS is wondering if it is worth setting a time now... while everyone (almost) ois still here

Qian [guest] says, ""Thanks, Roger.""

Johnr says, "Frosting on the cake, telling us about the great pgm you've written!"

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""I'll hang around a bit longer to answer any quuestions people may have and hopefully get them recorded"

TRex says, "This is good for me - not much traffic from Oz at this time!"

PeteO says, "Thanks very much!"

JohnW says, "Ok shall we set a date and time now, or arrange one thru the 'usual channels' about a day next week or is that too soon, everyone?"

Henryb says, "fine by me"

Johnr says, "While the iron is hot!"

Silke says, "next week is fine by me"

ClareS says, "Wed-fri next week OK for me"

Kurt says, "I'm away next week, but I guess it's impossible to choose a date that's OK for everyone"

TRex says, "I think I will work around everything else to get here"

Paolo says, "by me too"

HorstJS says, "fine by me too"

Qian [guest] says, ""Ok for me.""

JohnW says, "ok then, shall we make it same time, same day, same place, next week?"

CrisCan says, "ok for me"

PeteO nods

ClareS says, "ok for me"

Paolo says, "ok for me"

Johnr says, "Good, here"

TRex says, "Wednesday 1500 GMT?"

ClareS is late for her next appt already

JohnW says, "which is Wed 5th I believe, ...15:00 GMT then."

Qian [guest] says, ""Good for me.""

TRex says, "Done!"

Kurt has disconnected.

Henryb says, "wed 5th 1500 gmt is fine for me"

JohnW says, "well, I can only add my hearty thanks to Roger for coming today."

TRex says, "Roger, I'm still not sure about RasMenu - it *is8 needed for certain commands??"

CheeMV has disconnected.

ClareS applauds, thanks Roger again, and retreats in a hurry

Jzt says, "Many thanks from me too, Roger"

TRex agrees with JohnW

PeteO says, "Thanks again!"

PeteO has disconnected.

ClareS has disconnected.

Paolo says, "Thank you!"

Gayle schulte says, "thanks"

HorstJS says, "thank you very much!!!"

Simo bows

Qian [guest] says, ""thanks, Roger, See you next time.""

Silke [to RogerSayle]: Thanks a lot!

Simo has disconnected.

Paolo has disconnected.

CrisCan says, "thanks "

Henryb says, "thanks Roger and bye all"

Henryb has disconnected.

JohnW says, "Perhaps we should let Eric Martz and the listers know pronto about next week?"

TRex waves to departing friends

Qian [guest] says, ""Bye for now, everybody.""

JohnW says, "If this room can hold that many people...."

TRex says, "Good odea John - can the system handle the likely traffic?"

Qian [guest] says, ""Good night, Terry. See you tomorrow.""

TRex says, "Bye Qian"

Qian [guest] has disconnected.

Johnr says, "Invite Eric... make transcripts available"

The housekeeper arrives to remove qian [guest].

Johnr says, "little stepos, later teaching the world about MOOing :-)"

TRex grins

JohnW [to terry]: well I was wondering about that. Though there are now a LOT of people on the list, I dont know how many are currently MOO-versed...I think the more the merrier anyway!

TRex says, "Absolutely. Perhaps people could email topics, so that the majority could be dealt with by working through an example??"

TRex says, "I know that someone left some topics here earlier"

JohnW nods

TRex nods sagely

CrisCan says, "I think this is a good idea time is little for all the problems"

Paulyta waves bye

Paulyta has disconnected.

JohnW says, "Well, perhaps we should officially bring this to a close if no-one has any more questions""

JohnW . o O ( another 2 hours whizzed by )

Jzt says, "Shall I turn off the recorder, John?"

The housekeeper arrives to cart kurt off to bed.

TRex says, "I think we can cover most things in another session more efficiently"

Teakwon [guest] has disconnected.

HorstJS says, "i think i schedule my expressions question to the next meeting"

The housekeeper arrives to remove teakwon [guest].

RogerSayle [guest] says, ""who"

TRex says, "hearty thanks to all"

Gayle schulte says, "thank you! and bye"

Gayle schulte has disconnected.

JohnW nods to jzt

TRex wanders off to get tickets for the encore!

CrisCan says, "thank you very much and bye"

jzt turns the C-recorder off.