The Base C
A large, brightly illuminated room. Several tables are arranged as a 'C'. There is an exit in north-eastern direction to the PPS base
SophiaK (idle 15m), Iddo, and jzt are here.
Davidj says, "Hello All :-)"
Iddo says, "hello"
Iddo disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
SophiaK waves to Jzt
Iddo finds his way in.
Iddo finds his way out.
Jzt says, "Hello all, sorry I'm late and I'm on an unfamiliar PC so may make some unscheduled disappearances."
< 18:07 LucaO has connected. (14) >
Davidj says, "hello Jackie, quite an uncrowded room so far!"
JohnW finds his way in.
Iddo materializes out of thin air.
Jzt says, "Hello Luca, good to see you here"
JohnW says, "Hi All. I've just made my excuses and got away from the rival Base T meeting, but promised I'de be back in a while"
Jzt [to davidj]: Do you have any particular issues we should put on the 'agenda' today?
< 18:11 Mikerh [guest] has connected. (16) >
< 18:12 SteveTate has connected. (17) >
Davidj [to jzt]: No, not really. I have only just managed to start the Protein geometry section today so I am still behind. I am finding that the downloads from USA are often v. slow, especially if I can't arrage my PPS slots for the early morning
SteveTate finds his way in.
Iddo [to davidj]: there are European mirrors for most databases...
Jzt [to SteveTate]: Hello, Steve
LucaO finds its way in.
JohnW [to davidj]: which URLs in the US have you been having trouble with?
LucaO says, "hello"
Davidj [to Iddo]: Its especially the pages mounted over there that are causing "problems"
Jzt says, "Hello, Luca"
Jzt says, "I'm just moving downstairs - I've got a really confusing display here.."
JohnW welcomes Luca and SteveTate
Jzt has disconnected.
< 18:15 Jzt has disconnected. (16) >
Davidj [to JohnW]: John, today it was part of the hyperbook (at brookhaven(?))
LucaO says, "Franco is here as well"
SteveTate says, "hi ebvery body"
< 18:16 Jose [guest] has connected. (17) >
Jose [guest] finds its way in.
Jose [guest] says, "hello everyone""
JohnW [to davidj]: which chapter was this in- was it one of the kinemages?
Davidj says, "hello Jose and everyone else"
JohnW says, "Hi Jose"
SteveTate has disconnected.
< 18:18 SteveTate has disconnected. (16) >
JohnW . o O ( we've lost Steve! )
You whisper, "No John, if I recall correctly, it was text stuff but a pretty massive page (>250K) and was coming over at 190 bps" to JohnW.
JohnW whispers, "can you remember which page"
< 18:19 Kdenton [guest] has connected. (17) >
Kdenton [guest] finds its way in.
Iddo proposes to discuss mirroring, for obvious reasons
JohnW says, "Good idea"
< 18:21 Montse [guest] has connected. (18) >
Jzt has connected.
< 18:21 Jzt has connected. (19) >
You whisper, "I've just looked it up, it was the chemical models page at MIT (223K), I'll try it early tomorrow and save it locally" to JohnW.
Montse [guest] finds its way in.
Jzt says, "Hello Kate and Montse"
JohnW whispers, "ah yes, the MIT can be difficult to connect to sometimes, but not always."
Kdenton [guest] says, "hello Jacky"
Jzt says, "How come you and SteveTate are here together?"
Montse [guest]Hello everybody!
JohnW [to jzt]: Hi again, some more have turned up but we seem to have lost Steve
Kdenton [guest] says, "We'rre on separate computer"
Jzt says, "OK, now that a good number of us are here, do we have any items people want to put on an agenda?"
JohnW whispers, "Is steve having connection problems at the moment - thats if you can see him in real life! ? to Kdenton"
JohnW whispers, "oops that meant to go to someone else!"
Jzt [to LucaO]: For instance, Luca, are you doing OK with the course so far? I realsise that life is quite hectic at a synchrotron.
Mikerh [guest] finds its way in.
Kdenton [guest] says, "Steve is now with me as our other nmachine has crashed!"
Mikerh [guest] says, "hek"
Mikerh [guest] says, "hello all"
Jzt says, "Hello, Mike"
The housekeeper arrives to cart SteveTate off to bed.
LucaO says, "we are still studying the second section because we are really pressed with beamtime"
Mikerh [guest] says, "I was late. what are we discussing"
Jzt [to LucaO]: Well, that sounds OK. We are finding from the feedback forms that some people think we are going to slow, some too fast and some think it's OK, as I guess we would expect.
Jzt says, "Shall we continue discussing mirroring, since no-one has suggested any other point they want to raise just now? "
JohnW says, "Who is finding the accessing of WWW pages - especially in other continents- a big problem?"
Jzt says, "So when I was away, what was DaveJ saying about mirroring?"
Kdenton [guest] says, "I'm finding it quite hard to keep up with the coursework because Internet time is restricted here."
Jzt [to JohnW]: Is there anything we can do to make the course material accessible other than on the Internet?
Davidj says, "I was commenting that access to MIt, in particular, appeared slow in UK afternoons"
Kdenton [guest] says, "acessing the USA when they are playing is always slow (steve)"
JohnW says, "The question of having a packaged form of the material which can be downloaded and unpacked locally was raised a while ago on the lists. I've been looking into this- there are problems with it, as mentioned by Peter M-R, but I think it will be possible to do this for some chunks of material."
SophiaK [to jzt]: snail mail for those that find difficult to access Internet?
Davidj says, "THe problem with Sophia's sugestion is where there are links beyond the current document to follow."
Jzt [to SophiaK]: Well, I would certainly be prepared to put text pages of the course material in the ordinary postal system for anyone who requests me to - but of course that won't help with any of the 'activity' parts of the course.
< 18:36 Najmudin [guest] has connected. (20) >
Kdenton [guest] says, "last year the matterial was being ouput on a CD rom was this ever completed and is it available ?"
SophiaK [to jzt]: absolutely, but I think it's something
Najmudin [guest] finds its way in.
Iddo says, "I think email (attached Gifs etc.) is good enough. People will be able to mount pages locally, even if they don't have a server "open file" always works."
SophiaK [to davidj]: I was thinking about the core of the material not all details
JohnW says, "I'm hopeful that we will be able to provide, in packaged form, much of the material writeen by people officially associated with the course. Of course, it still has to be ftp'd, but this should be less awkward."
Jzt says, "Well, if anyone contacts me and asks me to send them print-outs of material I will certainly do this."
Iddo says, "Of course, PDB downloads will still be a problem. UKers can use the Cambridge SCOP though."
JohnW says, "Som of the problems could also be solved by mounting mirrors of for example the material which is currently only available in the U.S. But much of this is 'outside' material, not directly related to PPS, and getting permission will not always be easy."
Kdenton [guest] [to jzt]: sorry we are still learning this BioMoo between the two of us we down load the material and use it loacally as was mentioned on the discussion lists
Davidj says, "Anything from the US which has been created with US government monies is automatically public domain if this helps (Hence the brilliant service we get from, for example, NCBI)"
< 18:41 Stretch has connected. (20) >
Stretch finds its way in.
JohnW says, "Of course theres a limit to how much we can mirror, too. But I'm making an effort to mirror certain things, e.g. I got permission from Leos Kral to mirror his stuff on protein synthesis (part of next weeks material)"
JohnW says, "Some of the useful sites in the U.S. are already mirrored in Europe- e.g. Mark Daltons Cell Biology tutorial has a UK mirror (but it seems to be down at the moment)."
Stretch says, "hi everyone"
Jzt says, "Hello, Rob"
Najmudin [guest] says, "Hi to evryone as wll"
Davidj says, "I work on the naive assumption that if people mount stuff on the Net, it is because they want people to see it and would be grateful for Mirrors (provided one asks nicely). John, has anyone actually refused a request to mirror?"
Mikerh [guest] has disconnected.
< 18:45 Mikerh [guest] has disconnected. (19) >
Jzt [to stretch]: We are discussing mirroring more of the course material (e.g. US material)
JohnW says, "Hi Stretch.... On the subject of mirrors of PPS itself, we are always open to offers if anyone knows someone who might be able to help on this score..."
Davidj says, "I guess that the counter arguement to this is that if they have to justify the time spent creating web resources, hit at a mirror site would not be apparent."
Kdenton [guest] says, ""if we started mirroring all of the course material or a large proportion does this not defeat the purpose of the internet learning idea"
Kdenton [guest] says, "as people who would be outside the UK etc would still possible have difficulties down loading info"
JohnW [to davidj]: Well, I agree with you really. I would like to be able to mirror all of the MIT Bio book for e.g., but feel I should at least get permission from the developer (Shane Crotty). I mailed him a while back (not specifically to ask him about mirroring, admittedly), but have not had a reply.
LucaO says, "I'm sorry but users are asking for Franco and me "
Jzt says, "Bye, Luca"
LucaO says, "I must go to the beamline"
JohnW says, "Jim Pitts paged me a while back- I promised I'd attend some of his group T meeting so I will really have to leave now. I'll try and catch up with how the rest of this discussion went""
LucaO says, "bye to everybody"
JohnW waves goodbye
Davidj says, "good point Kate, but local mirrors also reduce demand on the original host and therefore promote internet use because more users can access the info"
JohnW finds his way out.
Jzt says, "Thanks, John"
LucaO has disconnected.
< 18:49 LucaO has disconnected. (18) >
Jzt [to kdenton]: I suppose selfishly we have mainly been discussing how EU people get access to US material.
Kdenton [guest] says, "about cytosine group things has anybody found any info on the biosynthesis of cytosine etc which we can add links to from the cyto home page? if not we have strated to put something togehter (steve)"
Jzt [to kdenton]: No-one else has told me they are doing that yet. Does anyone else know?
< 18:51 Francisco has connected. (19) >
Davidj says, "I've certainly done nothing yet, anything greatfully received"
Jzt [to davidj]: Is anyone responding to your HINTS?
Montse [guest] perhaps is a trivial question, but I don't have any experience with PDB, and Iand I would ask you if you could explain to me with more detail how can I download the the PDB file of the protein assignment 1
Kdenton [guest] [to jzt]: I commented to keho that his (this would be a good idesa I've started biosythesis but not getter to far PhD and all that kate is now helping with the text when its ready wi(e) will give it to DavivdJ
Davidj [to jzt]: I don't think that it is necessarily "selfish" cos there are only a limited number of routes across the pond but numerous routes within either side. I understand that the fibreoptic cable is nearly complete and that this should spee things up some 10 fold (or increase the usage 10 fold with everything going as slow as it did before :-)
Kdenton [guest] [to davidj]: doies this mean that all the scholl kids can then get on easuier and the extra 10,0000 user s a week will have more speca space?
Iddo disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Kdenton [guest] [to davidj]: the cross atalantic routes will still be slow even if the fibre optics are up and running wont they?
Iddo materializes out of thin air.
Stretch says, " i could check out the local chemical data base for cytosine stuff"
Jzt [to Montse]: I have not downloaded a PDB file - but isn't the course material on downloading in the first 2 weeks of the course helpful? After this meeting I will ask John Walshaw to mail you with specific instructions on how to get your protein structure.
The housekeeper arrives to cart LucaO off to bed.
Montse [guest] well, I must go to a PHD course just now. I' ll try to download the PDB file again. Bye!!!
Davidj [to kdenton]: Hopefully things should be much faster cos data is travelling at the speed of light, rather than as electric current
Kdenton [guest] says, " all this talk of mirroring is great was anything re course talked about?"
Jzt [to kdenton]: Not yet. What do you want to say?
Montse [guest] has disconnected.
Kdenton [guest] says, "nothing really lust wondering what will be going on in the next few weeks etc besides the sylabus and our own proteins etc and if anybody had voluteered to develop some more cytosine WWW oages?"
Jzt says, "Sorry, yes, we didn't finish on the home pages. It would be great if you and Steve can produce some more material and send it to Dave."
Davidj says, "Seriuosly, Yes, either pages, links or just ideas that we can develop"
Kdenton [guest] [to jzt]: this is steve talking most of the time you know!
Kdenton [guest] [to jzt]: can you mail me a copy of the transcript (steve) as I have to dissapear due to trains etc
SophiaK waves goodbye to all
Kdenton [guest] says, " goodbye every body I have to go now - steve"
Jzt says, "We are intending to take the next 2 weeks (from next Monday) on protein synthesis. Also, there is a 'background' assignment on your protein structure that I believe John has also put out. This will be relevant later, because we will ask to write up a similar assignment and submit it to us before the beginning of next term, if you can. Will mail transcript."
Davidj [to Steve]: transcripts are being logged and put onto the home page as soon as JohnW and I can arrange it
Kdenton [guest] says, "Steve has now gone so it's me on my own!"
Jzt crosses fingers for Kate
Iddo finds his way out.
Kdenton [guest] [to jzt]: thanks, Jacky
Jzt says, "There is no need to make a start on downloading the PDB file and working on the background assignment (your protein composition etc.) until next week."
Kdenton [guest] says, "phew!"
Jzt says, "Or later, if you wish. The assignment looks long, but actually is quite limited in scope."
Jzt says, "At the weekend I will analyse all the results of the feedback forms and let you all know the results. If a large majority of people say 'phew' then we will take note."
Davidj says, "phew phew phew phew phew phew phew phew phew phew :-)"
Jzt says, "OK, noted."
Jzt says, "However, you managed to find time to do the home page/.."
Davidj says, "that's why I am behind :-)"
Kdenton [guest] says, "It thuink I'm a bit behind because alot of stuff is new to me- biology degree in ,79-82 sadly jlacking"
SophiaK has disconnected.
Jzt [to kdenton]: Well, I have a physics degree, even worse..
Davidj says, "Seriously, I guess that the critical thing with external kinks is to judge when to stop following them and "return to base""
Davidj says, "sorry, that should have been external links!!!!"
Jzt says, "Yes, I think that is a problem with the material, there is really no clear end to it"
Jose [guest] says, "There's something about today that lends itself to freudian slips""
Stretch has disconnected.
Kdenton [guest] says, "I"i've got ot go now, bye"
Kdenton [guest] has disconnected.
Jose [guest] waves
Jzt says, "OK, it that about it, or has anyone anything more we should discuss?"
Najmudin [guest] says, "not really"
Davidj says, "Nothing more from me except to say that, despite the comments tonight, I think the course is great and thank you all"
Jzt says, "OK, hope to see some of you next week then."
Davidj says, "Bye everyone"
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