A freshly decorated room with new furniture. Lots of papers are piled on the
desks, along with folders containing student applications, names of consultants
and details of the course. There are several computer workstations. A red and
white striped hangs over the door, and a window looks out onto a Virtual Malet
The door opens onto a staircase leading down to the VSNS-PPS classroom.
You see a Visitors Notebook, an Information for Visitors, and a SG Indy here.
Jzt says, "sorry, only us and Sophia are here as yet."
SophiaK [to Jtz]: I had problems connecting as well
davidj says, "I had no problem connecting, a bit slow but OK. Only Rob and I made it last night as well"
Jzt says, "Although there are only a few here so far, should we decide what we are trying to discuss today? I suggest some topics: 1) the homepage 2) general problems 3) the pace of the course $) other suggestions?"
Jzt says, "Yes, I'm sorry I didn't get here yesterday."
< 19:15 KarlS has connected. (11) >
SophiaK says, "let's start ?"
< 19:16 JohnW has connected. (12) >
davidj says, "fine by me, I don't think I have anything major to say about the home page that I didn't say in my eMail"
Jzt says, "To start with something very postive, have you all seen the homepage that David has got together? It's accessible from the 'participants' page. We could do with more contributions to it now."
KarlS finds its way in.
Jzt says, "By 'now' I don't mean immediately, I mean as additions become appropriate."
KarlS says, "Hi everybody"
JohnW finds his way in.
JohnW says, "Sorry I'm late..."
SophiaK [to KarlS]: hello
Hrosa says, "its ok for me"
Hrosa says, "not yet"
Jzt [to KarlS]: Hello Karl. We were just discussing the home page..
Jzt [to JohnW]: Hello John
KarlS says, "I tried, but I couldn't call up to the homepage today, so I do not know how it looks like."
davidj says, "Hi Karl, have you managed to locate Mage for Mac yet? I can try to eMail it to you if you like"
KarlS says, "No, I do not have Mage yet. It would be great, if you mail it to me!"
Jzt [to KarlS]: davidj were interested in getting a BioMOO group room -have you had time to do anything about that?
davidj says, "I'll try to mail it during tonight's seminar"
SophiaK [to Davidjplease]: mail it to me as well as I haven't installed it yet
SophiaK [to davidj]: many thanks!
KarlS says, "As far as I understand, I am responsible for creating our own seminar room. I will create one until the next meeting. Is that all right?"
< 19:25 Achille has disconnected. (11) >
KarlS says, "Sorry, that was a misunderstanding with the Cytosine seminar room... Achille asked me how to get in THIS room."
JohnW [to davidj]: perhaps you could e-mail me a copy as well? I know a Mac user here who was trying to get it from the U.S. I'm not sure if he got it.Then we will also put on Bbk's ftp server.
JohnW . o O ( my connection is a bit slow )
JohnW . o O ( complete freeze! )
davidj says, "what's your eMail JohnW?"
Jzt says, "OK, We seem to have got onto item 2 - general problems with technology or t, sorry, other points about course material. Has anyone got any points they would like to discuss? "
Jzt [to KarlS]: That would be great!
Jzt thinks her connection is v-e-r-y s-l-o-w
JohnW [to davidj]: either firstname.lastname@example.org , or you can mail me at pps2 at the same address.
Jzt says, "Are there any more points on that, or can we go on to discuss the general pace of the course so far?"
JohnW says, "How about the pace of the course?"
JohnW . o O ( you read my mind! )
< 19:32 Achille has connected. (12) >
SophiaK says, "I"ve fallen a little bit behind. I'll catch up pretty soon , I reckon."
Jzt says, "We had intended to give students an anonymous feed-back form at regular intervals to give us an idea if people were finding things too slow or too fast, etc. Now we are thinking of doing this early next week."
Jzt says, "Do people here have any comments right now?"
SophiaK says, "seems good idea"
Hrosa says, "i think is a good idead the feed-back forms"
JohnW says, "Some of the feedback we've been having from other groups indicates that a lot of people could do with a pause while they install the various software packages and familiarise themselves with the technology, before we push on to the next section of the course. What do you all think of this?"
Achille materializes out of thin air.
Jzt says, "Hello Achille"
JohnW welcomes Achille
Achille [to jzt]: Hello Jzt
SophiaK [to Achille]: hello
Achille [to JohnW]: Hello John
< 19:36 Najmudin [guest] has connected. (13) >
Jzt [to Achille]: We are discussing whether the course is going too fast (which some people have told us) and if you would like another week to familiarise yourselves with the material and tech stuff so far.
Achille [to SophiaK]: Hello Sophia
KarlS says, "I agree with you, John. So far, I spent most of the time getting and installing software. For that reason, I am also a bit behind the schedule. "
Najmudin [guest] finds its way in.
JohnW waves at Najmudin
Jzt think she is behind schedule as well!
davidj says, "I for one am still on last week's stuff. It took me quite a time to install rasmol and kinemage (but I had to do it twice, for windows and mac)"
Najmudin [guest] says, "hello everybody"
Jzt [to najmudin]: Hello, Shabir
Hrosa says, "a pause would be nice to catch up "
Jzt says, "Does there seem to be general agreement that we could spend next week usefully on consolidating the material so far?"
davidj says, "yes please jackie"
Hrosa says, "nice!"
Jzt says, "OK, John and I have noted these comments - they agree with what others have told us from other groups."
KarlS says, "Yes!"
SophiaK [to JohnW]: suits me perfectly as well thanks !
Najmudin [guest] says, "me to as I have had a very busy week"
JohnW says, "I think that we need to allow time for everyone to get Rasmol and mage installed, as they are necessary to best appreciate the material. After that, there shouldnt be too many large technical hurdles"
JohnW crosses his fingers
Jzt says, "Do any of you know of anyone in the group who is having serious problems connecting to the course?"
Jzt says, "Not the people here, I mean, but anyone else?"
Achille says, "I think Kinemage quite difficult to use"
davidj says, "those connecting via Demon (Kate and Steve?) were saying last week that it wasn't too easy for them, I don't know if things have changed"
Jzt [to JohnW]: Can you help Achille with Kinemage?
JohnW says, "David Moss is connected from home via Demon, and also had some problems a while back."
JohnW [to Achille]: are you using Mage on a 486?
Hrosa says, "the connection to biomoo is very slow"
Jzt [to hrosa]: The BioMOO connection is very variable for all of us I think
Achille [to JohnW]: Yes. The program works well, I believe. I only do not know what to do with it
JohnW [to Achille]: have you managed to download some kinemage files?
Achille [to JohnW]: Yes I did. I see the pictures and I can move and rotate bonds. However I have not got the difeerence from RasMol
< 19:49 Giovanni has disconnected. (12) >
JohnW says, "In the past I wasnt sure about Mage. But it was designed with a somewhat different purpose to Rasmol. For instance, Rasmol displays a set of atomic coordinates, which cannot be changed. In kinemages (such as the one on peptide geometry) the author can allow the structure to be changed by bond rotation."
Jzt [to JohnW]: What is the best resource we point to which explains the possibilities using Mage in most detail?
Jzt [to JohnW]: Or is it more a question of spending time experimenting with the program?
JohnW says, "Mage also allows a large amount of text to be included, and also there can be several completely different kinemages in a single .kin file. I think of kinemages as being 3D slide shows (or even several 3D shows rolled into one. E.g. try this file. It is one of the Protein Tourist kinemages, by Jane and David Richardson- we have local copies on the Bbk server. I think the starting point for kinemage references is the Kinemage page of the pps course. You can get to it from the Technology Index page."
Jzt says, "OK, many thanks, John. Does anyone else want to raise any different points today? Also, is this a good day and time for meetings, or is Wednesday around 16.00 GMT better? I believe it is for some people?"
Achille [to JohnW]: I agree with Jzt that it needs a lot of practice
Najmudin [guest] says, "both wednesdays and about now on thursday are good for me"
davidj says, "Normally I can't make Thursdays. I can make, Wed at 4.00 or 5.00 no problem"
Achille says, "Everyday is OK with me. 17 GMT would be better"
Hrosa says, "not allways possible for me . Friday would be better..."
Jzt says, "I will try to coordinate with Rob so we give people enough warning about the meeting time for next week."
davidj says, "Friday OK for me also"
SophiaK says, "for me as well"
Achille says, "is it possible to put the schedule on cytosine page?"
< 20:02 Lutz has connected. (13) >
Jzt [to Achille,]: Yes, we could certainly do that - OK DaveJ?
davidj says, "No problems this end and JohnW is pretty damm fast at mounting the stuff once I have told him it is there"
JohnW says, "Well- I try my best...;-)"
SophiaK says, "cytosine page yes but e-mail is useful as well I think as a direct reminder"
Jzt agrees with Sophia
JohnW says, "I'll also put a reminder on the main Noticeboard. I was also wondering if it would be worth having an electronic form which is auto-appendable, so that people could write the dates of their next group meetings on it. Or is this unnecessary?"
Jzt says, "All right, we'll try to get the schedule out on Monday. Maybe make a schedule for a couple of weeks ahead."
Najmudin [guest] says, "yes both email and cytosine page "
Jzt says, "I think the Noticeboard, the Cytopage and email should do the triok"
Najmudin [guest] says, "yes it is easier to plan two weeks ahead than to have to alter your plans at the last minute"
Jzt says, "Thank you all for all your comments - it's been useful. Has anyone any other points to discuss or shall we think about closing the meeting?"
JohnW has one further point about the Group room:
Achille says, "May I ask a question? What does it mean AKA in Cytosine home page?"
Jzt [to Achille]: Also Known As
Achille [to jzt]: Thanks
Hrosa says, "by the way i have been reading the cytosine page well done Dave!"
davidj says, "just to keep proding people to send something (anything) for the home pages, glad you like them so far, remember that they are OUR pages, not mine."
JohnW [to KarlS]: if you are building a group room, you may want to dig a connection to the central group room, called pps base. Perhaps the south-west exit of the pps base could lead to the Cytosine room (and then we can put the Guanine room opposite it!)
Jzt [to JohnW]: nice idea!
KarlS [to JohnW]: Ok, I'll try
Achille [to davidj]: If you modify the Cytopage please do not use fancy backgrounds. It takes ours to load the Guanine page
Davidj [to Achille]: don't worry, I don't know how to!!!
JohnW [to KarlS]: ok, let me know when its ready, and I'll add in the appropriate exit from the central room to the C room.
JohnW adds that backgrounds still aren't official HTML yet anyway. Tut tut.
KarlS [to JohnW]: I'll create the room on monday and let you know afterwards.
davidj says, "pretty though, but I can understand the frustration if they cause slow loading "
JohnW says, "And a reminder to everyone, that you can always disable the loading of images, so that you only get the text (which is usually a fraction of the size of the average image file)"
Najmudin [guest] says, "how do you do that"
davidj says, "there should be an "autoload images" checkbox to click off"
JohnW says, "On Netscape, you un-select the Auto-Load Images facility. This is under Options."
Jzt [to davidj]: By the way I think your HINTS on the Cytopage are very subtle..
davidj whisper, "they will get even more subtle if nothing flows in, like naming names!!!" to jzt.
JohnW . o O ( where are the HINTS? )
Jzt whispers, " I get the hint.."
Najmudin [guest] says, "thanks "
JohnW has now seen the hints!
Lutz has arrived.
Jzt says, "OK, What else do we need to talk about? "
JohnW welcomes Lutz
davidj says, "I have nothing else to raise, thank you Jackie"
Jzt says, "Anyone else?"
SophiaK says, "neither do I thank you all"
SophiaK waves goodbye
Najmudin [guest] says, "neither do I - Thanx"
Lutz says, "Howdy"
davidj says, "Bye Sophia"
Hrosa has disconnected.
< 20:22 Hrosa has disconnected. (12) >
JohnW thanks SophiaK for sending us the postcard- Santa Barbara looks a little bit warmer than the UK at the moment
Achille [to SophiaK]: arrivederci
Jzt says, "OK look forward to seeing you all next week, I hope"
Hrosa has connected.
< 20:23 Hrosa has connected. (13) >
davidj whisper, "you seem to have arrived just as we are all about to leave!" to Lutz.
JohnW says, "I hope to drop in on a C group meeting in the near future... bye all"
Najmudin [guest] says, "bye"
KarlS says, "Bye"
davidj says, "bye all, I've got to go and assign some bugs to cryogenic bliss"
Najmudin [guest] has disconnected.
< 20:24 Najmudin [guest] has disconnected. (12) >
Achille [to jzk]: see you then
The housekeeper arrives to remove najmudin [guest].
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